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Captain_Frosty
ComStar
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Joined: 22-Nov-2024 02:18
Posts: 59
Location: Greece
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 Posted: 28-Apr-2025 03:49 Post subject: Why is infantry so weird? |
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Personally, I've always loved the combined arms warfare aspect of battletech. While 'mechs have always been the centerpiece of the setting and system, the fact is that you can easily have a fully competent lance of vehicles or even an augmented lance of both 'mechs and vehicles.
Aerospace fighters and dropships are also interesting and fun while small craft and warships are fittingly impressive in their extensive loadouts. Everything feels fairly well rounded and while not perfectly balanced or realistic, I'd say every level of combat feels satisfying...
And then there's infantry.
To clarify, I'm not saying infantry should be a match for 'mechs. Even if you somehow make an infantry platoon that costs as much BV as a 'mech, it should still operate like infantry. That means they are squishy, relatively slow compared to vehicles but can hide well and use any environment to their advantage.
What I have an issue with are infantry weapons. Not even the rules but specifically the weapon listings themselves; they feel completely nonsensical and thoroughly inconsistent with the rest of the system.
Of course, I'm not saying that something like a crossbow should be "balanced" with a laser rifle but at the same time, it feels like there's only 3~5 primary weapons and 1~3 support weapons that are worth it at all.
A 300kg heavy support laser has more range and only 0.09 less damage than a 1800kg support PPC that physically slows down the infantry platoon due to its weight. Not only that but the BV difference does not at all justify this massive difference either so its not a mechanics balance thing; it's just weird.
Similarly, the core rulebook has "LRM infantry" as an example default template and then I only really see a single instance of a support LRM launcher in Tech Manual which has poor range, was made in the 3050s and can't even target aircraft.
I apologize if this comes off as a rant. I just always like using infantry in any strategy game I play and it sadly feels like there's only 2 ways to do so effectively in BT; give them field guns or make them cheap and highly mobile to rush swarm attacks against 'mechs like it's 1942 in Stalingrad.
Am I the idiot here? I've misunderstood rules before, severely so in the case of ECMs at one point, but I'm fairly sure I've not misinterpreted infantry functionality and it just feels completely wrong compared to the rest of the game. Ironically, it feels like Protomechs work the way that I'd expect/want infantry to function.
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Thunder
Clan Blood Spirit
Star Colonel
Joined: 22-Feb-2024 01:39
Posts: 421
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| Posted: 28-Apr-2025 07:34 Post subject: Why is infantry so weird? |
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| Infantry weapons are weird because they're converted from RPG stats.
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Captain_Frosty
ComStar
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Joined: 22-Nov-2024 02:18
Posts: 59
Location: Greece
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| Posted: 30-Apr-2025 04:09 Post subject: Re: Why is infantry so weird? |
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| Thunder wrote: | | Infantry weapons are weird because they're converted from RPG stats. |
I remember reading about that in one of the other forums when looking up the matter. I guess I'll need to check my copy of "A Time of War" to see if the weapons are equally all over the place there.
Besides that, is there a way to make "custom" weapons without messing up the balance? A way to calculate the BV based on a weapon's stats that I could use to just stat out my own rifles and support weapons?
If not, I'll just resort to re-flavoring existing weapons as different things and call it a day XD
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Thunder
Clan Blood Spirit
Star Colonel
Joined: 22-Feb-2024 01:39
Posts: 421
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| Posted: 30-Apr-2025 05:03 Post subject: Re: Why is infantry so weird? |
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docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1efDBtO1KmkgUIQ_caUGb8-Xgl8D_P2zJukEobe8r-mM/edit?usp=drivesdk
Bv calculator. It would need modification after you get past range band 5 for infantry I think. As I'm posting this its set for Mauser IICs, and the value it spits out is close to the value megamek is reporting.
You're probably safer rebranding existing equipment. There is a lot of it available, and minor differences rarely change things at mech scales.
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Captain_Frosty
ComStar
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Joined: 22-Nov-2024 02:18
Posts: 59
Location: Greece
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| Posted: 30-Apr-2025 06:48 Post subject: Re: Why is infantry so weird? |
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Hot damn!
Did you just make this? Either way, I love my spreadsheets so I'll see what I can make with it, even if I end up having to just reflavor existing stuff.
Honestly, I always found it a bit weird that everything seems to have a fixed value for BV. Considering the math that goes into the process anyway, you'd think that it would simply be a calculation based on max damage, weight and critical slots (slots divided by weight, result multiplied by max potential damage?). Fixing the prices just feels wonky imo but I guess it works well enough for what we've got.
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Thunder
Clan Blood Spirit
Star Colonel
Joined: 22-Feb-2024 01:39
Posts: 421
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| Posted: 30-Apr-2025 07:32 Post subject: Re: Why is infantry so weird? |
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Ive had it for a few months. The Heavy Metal Pro website also has a calculator and explanation of how BV is derived. I made the spreadsheet so I could do stuff manually, like figure out what the BV of ATMs should actually be.
The basic idea is the sum of average damage at every hex in range, times some multipliers based on if it uses ammo or is a head capping weapon.
Unimportant details like tonnage and crits are not contributing factors.
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Captain_Frosty
ComStar
Corporal
Joined: 22-Nov-2024 02:18
Posts: 59
Location: Greece
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| Posted: 30-Apr-2025 08:17 Post subject: Re: Why is infantry so weird? |
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| Thunder wrote: | Ive had it for a few months. The Heavy Metal Pro website also has a calculator and explanation of how BV is derived. I made the spreadsheet so I could do stuff manually, like figure out what the BV of ATMs should actually be.
The basic idea is the sum of average damage at every hex in range, times some multipliers based on if it uses ammo or is a head capping weapon.
Unimportant details like tonnage and crits are not contributing factors. |
Oh.
OH.
THIS IS OFFICIAL?
Or at least as official as it gets with this kind of thing. Oh, this changes things.
You may as well insert here BJ Blaskowitz's face when finding the chaingun; I think the folks in my group will like this a lot.
Especially considering that we specifically allow for **any** piece of equipment, so long as it is within the era (3081)
Thanks a ton, friend!
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