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AlayneLeung
Lyran Alliance
Staff Sergeant
Joined: 03-Jan-2015 18:40
Posts: 133
Location: United States
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 Posted: 30-Jan-2015 20:36 Post subject: max thrust points aerofighter evasive SO & TO? edited Apr 24 |
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edited part: for my March 13, 2015 edit, see the most recent reply i posted to this topic.
somewhere in Strategic Operations are rules (i can't remember the page number) that say an aerospace fighter/conventional fighter can spend 1 thrust point for a +1 evasive bonus applied to the to-hit numbers of all attacks against it. so what should the maximum thrust points be for said evasive bonus? let's remember that electric motors cause the exhaust nozzles to move left/right or up/down for these thrust evasive maneuvers; and if they're performed too many times in a single game turn, then, in theory, they would cause the electric motors to burn up (become ruined). at least one thrust point hasto be spent to move said aerospace fighter/conventional fighter in addition to all evasive thrust points spent; otherwise aerospace fighter/conventional fighter is immobile target and evasive wouldn't be possible. also, can these evasive rules be combined with the Tactical Handbook rules for skilled evasive, like if a pilot has a Piloting of 1, then can her/his skilled thrust points evasiveness for 20 thrust points spent be +80 since Piloting of 1 i think provides +4 skilled evasive, then multiplied by 20=+80 to-hit modifier defensive bonus on all attacks against it? and how do you all feel about the more evasive thrust points that are done, the more likely she/he can become blackout unconscious, like adding her/his total evasive to her/his conscious target number to be rolled? so if she/he has +80 to-hit mod evasive bonus, then add +80 to her/his conscious target number of say, 3, so total is 83, and that causes automatic blackout unconscious since 83 is way higher than roll?
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"Okay friendlies, you're not paid to be exclusively a 'MechWarrior', vehicle/spacecraft crewer, fighter pilot, or infantry trooper. You're just paid to follow my orders!" So says me to my personnel.
[Last edited by AlayneLeung on 24-Apr-2015 17:21; edited 7 times in total]
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5619
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Jan-2015 02:48 Post subject: SO: max thrust points aero/con fighter can use for evasive? |
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go back, find the page #, copy and quote the relevant text, and then double check for interactions.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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AlayneLeung
Lyran Alliance
Staff Sergeant
Joined: 03-Jan-2015 18:40
Posts: 133
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Jan-2015 15:26 Post subject: SO: max thrust points aero/con fighter can use for evasive? |
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i'd like to, but unfortunately i can't find my copies of SO & TO. you see, i've been hoarding here in my house with wargaming books, and i'm going to be on that TV show that talks about hoarding with Dr. Robin Zasio and also with a professional organizer. can any1 look up these rules for me like using table of contentses/indexes to locate their page numbers?
_________________
"Okay friendlies, you're not paid to be exclusively a 'MechWarrior', vehicle/spacecraft crewer, fighter pilot, or infantry trooper. You're just paid to follow my orders!" So says me to my personnel.
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AlayneLeung
Lyran Alliance
Staff Sergeant
Joined: 03-Jan-2015 18:40
Posts: 133
Location: United States
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Mordel
Mordel.Net
Administrator
Joined: 03-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 6021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06-Mar-2015 19:04 Post subject: max thrust points aerofighter evasive SO &TO? my Mar 6 reply |
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EVADING
Evading makes enemy attacks more di cult.
A unit’s Evading MP equals its Running/Flanking MP, and any attack against an Evading unit su ffers a +1 to-hit modi fer, in addition to its normal movement modifier and any other applicable modi fiers. An Evading unit generates 2 Heat Points per turn, in addition to the standard 2 Heat Points for running, and may not make any attack during the turn it used Evading movement. Additionally, the ’Mech may not spot for indirect
LRM fi re or artillery fire or take any other action that would normally require it to sacrifice an attack.
To use Evading movement, a ’Mech must have two working hip actuators. Also, a prone ’Mech receives no bene fit from Evading movement, even if it started the Movement Phase using Evading movement. For example, if an Evading ’Mech fails a Piloting Skill Roll during the Movement Phase of a turn, it does not receive the +1 to-hit modifier during the Weapon
Attack and Physical Attack phases of that turn.
A ‘Mech may not engage either MASC or a supercharger when using the evading movement mode.
Skilled Evading
Under the Skilled Evading option, the to-hit modi fier gained from Evading movement is based on the MechWarrior’s Piloting Skill, as shown in the Skilled Evading Table.
Piloting Skill To-Hit Modi fier for Evading
6 or greater +0
4–5 +1
2–3 +2
0–1 +3
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 07-Mar-2015 02:08 Post subject: max thrust points aerofighter evasive SO &TO? my Mar 6 reply |
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I thought this topic was for aerospace untits, or they use the same evasive movements rule?
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The dragon NEVER sleeps!
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AlayneLeung
Lyran Alliance
Staff Sergeant
Joined: 03-Jan-2015 18:40
Posts: 133
Location: United States
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| Posted: 07-Mar-2015 15:38 Post subject: max thrust points aerofighter evasive SO & TO? Apr 24 edit |
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thanks, Mordel.
now, friends, what are the evasive rules on SO p. 277? if they're just +1 to-hit modifier on all attacks against unit using thrust point(s) per thrust point spent, then maybe these two evasive rules can't currently be combined for aerospace units since the TO evasive rules only mention Rrunning/Flank MP, and aerospace units don't use Flank/Running MPs since aerospace units use Safe Thrust/Max Thrust MPs for evasive instead; these evasive rules seem like funny mechanics.
also, that doesn't answer my first question about the max number of thrust points that can be used for evasive because, in theory, a lot of thrust points, during the same game turn, would destroy the motors used to move the exhaust nozzles up/down or left/right to perform evasive maneuvers.
hmm, perhaps these evasive rules might be too complicated for Land Air 'Mechs to use.
i would prefer the evasive rules typed so that they're interchangeable for any unit as follows using these currently unofficial four numbered rules:
1, any unit using evasive MP while attacking has a 1D6 (average of 3.5) evasive action attacker modifier in addition to the evading unit's current attacker movement modifier applied to the evading unit's base to-hit number for each attack said unit makes while evading in addition to all other applicable modifiers unless that/those attack(s) is/are put into effect and are controlled by personnel not driving/piloting that unit which negates the need for evasive action 1D6 modifier and attacker movement modifier (i thought a 1D6 roll would be more fun than a +3 modifier like the way aerospace fighters currently have and additional personnel could compensate for evasive 1D6 modifier and attacker movement modifier given how said additional personnel can be trained for their gunnery to do such negating of these 2 modifiers) (for example, Gunnery of +4 plus +1 modifier since attacking unit is a drone plus 0 attacker movement modifier and 0 evasive negated due to gunner is an additional person attacking unit's plus +5 target movement modifier equals +10 to-hit total for gunner of unit using evasive maneuvering to attack a target ;
2, when using thrusting for evasive MP, apply a modifier equal to the total number of thrust points spent for evasive MP to the minimum desired to be rolled number (not the actual roll number) to determine if each person, that is supposedly is in unit, that is using thrust points to evade, goes unconscious (in theory, the more evasive a thrusting unit does, the more likely (s)he will go unconscious due to the high Gs of many evasive maneuvers) (for example, 5 thrust points spent for evasive plus avoid roll of of say 2 equals at least a 7 to roll.
3, when a unit uses evasive MP, it is using the MP of one less movement mode then what it's declared to be; in other words if a unit is at sprinting/overdriving/overthrusting and uses evasive, then it's only allowed running/flanking/maxthrusting MP; or if it's at running/flanking/maxthrusting and uses evasive, then it's only allowed walking/cruising/safethrusting MP; or if it's at walking/cruising/safethrust MP, then it's only allowed stationary/stationary/coasting (in theory a unit has to do some movement to go from one destination to another to be more difficult to track while it's performing evasive maneuvers, otherwise it's a sitting duck while it's performing evasive); multiply skilled evasive to-hit modifier, that is equal to 7 minus piloting/driving skill base number, by +1 and by total number of thrust points (no more than a max total of 10 thrust points) used in game turn for evasiveness if thrust points were used for evasiveness in said game turn, and then added in addition to all other modifiers, on all attacks against said unit during turn said unit is using evasiveness, (in theory, the more improved a person is at piloting/driving, the more improved her/his evasive maneuvers can be and in theory each thrust point used for evasiveness would augment said improved evasive maneuvers, and i thought a max of 10 thrust points was sufficient because a 10 second game turn means 1 thrust point used for evasiveness per second to not ruin the motors used for the exhaust nozzles' thrust vectoring; for example 7 minus piloting of 5 equals 2 multiplied by +1 and multiplied by 5 thrust points mentioned in previous example equals +10 evasive modifier, in addition to all other modifiers, on all attacks made against unit using evasive maneuvering).
4, at the end of said unit's movement while it's using evasiveness, it must make a piloting/driving skill roll with a modifier added to minimum desired number equal to its current attacker movement modifier to avoid:
*falling if it was sprinting/running/walking during the movement phase said unit was using said evasiveness (in theory if a unit is using any of these movement types, then it might fall);
*going into a skid or sideslip or capsizing or flip over if it was overdriving/flanking/cruising during the movement phase said unit was using said evasiveness (in theory if a unit is using any of these maneuvers, then it might have a failed maneuver);
*going out of control if it was safe thrusting/max safe thrusting/overthrusting during the movement phase said unit was using said evasiveness if pilot became unconscious during said movement phase with a positive modifier equal to MoF of consciousness roll (in theory, a unit would go out of control if its pilot/copilot can't be conscious to control it and the worse the unconsciousness is for pilot/copilot, the more likely the out of control effects would be).
_________________
"Okay friendlies, you're not paid to be exclusively a 'MechWarrior', vehicle/spacecraft crewer, fighter pilot, or infantry trooper. You're just paid to follow my orders!" So says me to my personnel.
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magicaldeveloper
Free Worlds League
Private
Joined: 19-Sep-2015 19:11
Posts: 18
Location: United States
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| Posted: 19-Sep-2015 21:11 Post subject: max thrust points aerofighter evasive SO & TO? edited Apr 24 |
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no AlayneLeung, rules 1, 2, 3, and 4 are not too complicated for LAMs, and i agree with all of them for the most part; they're good & great rules, but i do have recommendations:
while a unit is using evasive, the minimum desired roll number for non-combat actions (such as technical repairs/replacements) should have a modifier equal to evasive rule #1 evasive 1D6 modifier in addition to all other modifiers;
for rule #3(b?), i recommend a max total of 20 thrust points due to how i have an electric beard and moustache trimmer that's motors have the blade move repeatedly left to right and right to left about 4 times per second, so (4 times per second times)* 10 seconds game turn divided by 2 for up to down and down to up movements and left to right and right to left movements = max total of 20 thrust points for a max of +20 evasive to-hit modifier and then multiplied by skilled evasive modifier of (8 minus base piloting minimum desired piloting roll number because i think TW provides for a +8 minium desired piloting roll number skill);
for rule #4 i recommend applying rule #1 evasive 1D6 modifier in addition to attacker movement modifier and in addition to all other applicable modifiers, and also for rule #4 if a unit going out of control due to pilot/copilot(s) becoming unconscious should be capable of automatic computer automovement regaining control due to neurohelmet of pilot/copilot(s) informing computer that pilot/copilot(s) is/are unconscious;
note to save memory for Mordel.net, i decided i wouldn't recopy rules 1, 2, 3, and 4
please improve the organization of your rules by adjusting the numbering of them so that your current rule #3(a? and b?) becomes new rule #1, current rule #1 becomes new rule #2, and current rule #2 becomes new rule #3
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any BT information that i post should not be considered official BT information unless said BT information that i post can be legally quoted from a published up to date BT product
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