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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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 Posted: 15-Aug-2013 08:22 Post subject: TRO 3145 common sense |
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I have to agree with Sleeping Dargon the idea that it cost a lot meant it wasn't readily there and aviable for everyone and even the Dragoons used it sparingly.
Yet now with the TROs we see EVERYONE using it and the Clans actively selling it to the Inner Sphere which makes about as much sense as the US selling the F-22 to Iran.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5619
Location: United States
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| Posted: 15-Aug-2013 15:56 Post subject: TRO 3145 common sense |
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Well, 3145 is nearly 100 years after the Clan invasion. Not only do you have the Dragoon (till Jihad) and CWiE but by this point the Wolf, Bears, and JF have setup house in their invasion corridors. Ravens have merged with an entire Periphery nation and pretty much half the Clans have a faction that is a part of the RotS.
Within 50 years the IS went from ML and LRMs to ERML, XPULSE, MML, and Endo-Composite. Lets not forget the RAC. It wouldn't surprise me that with a little help or just straight time the IS would be producing Clan tech for its top units.
And I disagree, the Ravens are selling F-22s to Iran. Any sells to major IS would be the US selling F-22s to Japan, China, or India. Its a matter of time before we see Advanced versions of IS weaponry that is statistically closer to Clan equipment.
Advanced ERPPC-e: 15 heat, 12 dmg, (0)23 hex, 7t, 3c
Advanced ERPPC-i: 15 heat, 10 dmg, (0)23 hex, 6t, 2c
Advanced ERLL-e: 12 heat, 8 dmg, (0)25 hex, 5t, 2c
Advanced ERLL-i: 12 heat, 8 dmg, (0)19 hex, 4t, 1c
Advanced AC5-e: 1 heat, 5 dmg, (0)21 hex, 8t, 4c
Advanced AC5-i: 1 heat, 5 dmg, (3)18 hex, 7t, 2c
Advanced AC20-e: 7 heat, 20 dmg, (0)12 hex, 14t, 10c
Advanced AC20-i: 7 heat, 20 dmg, (0)9 hex, 13t, 9c
Advanced LRM10-e: 4 heat, 1/m dmg, (3)21 hex, 5t, 3c
Advanced LRM10-i: 4 heat, 1/m dmg, (6)21 hex, 2.5t, 1c
Advanced SRM6-e: 4 heat, 2/m dmg, (0)12 hex, 3t, 2c
Advanced SRM6-i: 4 heat, 2/m dmg, (0)9 hex, 1.5t, 1c
Just a hand full of examples.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 15-Aug-2013 17:52 Post subject: TRO 3145 common sense |
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You missed my point Vagabond. IF the Clans stuff can be bought why does the Inner Sphere keep making their older tech when there are better weapons out there from the Clans?
IF the Clans have become so capitalist in nature and then why aren't setting up shop in say the Fed-Suns opening factories or having exculsive trade dealings etc?
And why would the Inner Sphere improved older weapons like their ERPPC or ER Lg Laser when they can buy or build Clan tech versions?
And on the other side of this WHY would the Clans give up their biggest advantage ie their better weapons etc..to the Inner Sphere? Have they changed that much to become nothing but gun merchants and weapons dealers?
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5619
Location: United States
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| Posted: 15-Aug-2013 20:28 Post subject: Re: TRO 3145 common sense |
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| Karagin wrote: | | You missed my point Vagabond. IF the Clans stuff can be bought why does the Inner Sphere keep making their older tech when there are better weapons out there from the Clans? |
Cost is still high enough to prohibit mass use?!? Why does the US have the F-16 and F-35? Because the F-15 and F-22 cost a crap load to produce in comparison.
| wrote: | | IF the Clans have become so capitalist in nature and then why aren't setting up shop in say the Fed-Suns opening factories or having exculsive trade dealings etc? |
Only a few of them are willing to sell. And I see it a lot like the FWL, those willing to sell still have national designs so they remain a nation.
| wrote: | | And why would the Inner Sphere improved older weapons like their ERPPC or ER Lg Laser when they can buy or build Clan tech versions? |
I see these designs actually evolving for the desire to produce Clan level weapons. Its to costly to produce a Clan ERLL but we can produce a ERLL that has the same range as the Clan version but at a reasonable cost.
| wrote: | | And on the other side of this WHY would the Clans give up their biggest advantage ie their better weapons etc..to the Inner Sphere? Have they changed that much to become nothing but gun merchants and weapons dealers? |
A few of them purposely seem to want the IS to close the gap. Nova Cats, WiE, and the Ravens.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 15-Aug-2013 23:28 Post subject: Re: TRO 3145 common sense |
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[rant]The problem is that I haven't seen anything like that supported in fluff. Neither did LRMs loose their minimal range after invasion and instead we go those crappy Enhanced LRMs to do the job, nor did standard AC range go up to at least ultra AC standard, eventhough the components are nearly the same. At one side they make it look like clantech is so widely available, that you can build entire product lines of 'Mechs with them and at the same time there isn't much mention of this increase in capabilities in fluff or rules. IS weapons are not evolving from the time of their introduction waaaaaaaaaaay back in star league unless you throw in more tons and criticals and create a "new model" that is not wuite the old one, while clans have managed a quantum leap in technology waaaaaay (mind it's a bit shorter) back when they were shortly after exodus. I'm throroughly surprised that reverse-engineering after all these years by all the powers of the IS for entire century without being constantly censored and oppresed by ComStar and Word of Blake with factory complexes already being captured on multiple occasions didn't achieve any results.[/rant]
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2013 00:25 Post subject: Re: TRO 3145 common sense |
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| Sleeping Dragon wrote: | | [rant]The problem is that I haven't seen anything like that supported in fluff. I'm throroughly surprised that reverse-engineering after all these years by all the powers of the IS for entire century without being constantly censored and oppresed by ComStar and Word of Blake with factory complexes already being captured on multiple occasions didn't achieve any results.[/rant] |
I'd say the main reason is this: the game got in the way.
BT was not setup to reflect evolving technology. You'd basically need to release an entire new weapons list of EVERY weapon released at least 20 years before that gives those weapons new capabilities. That could get confusing QUICK.
A 3025 list: level 1 weapons
a 3039 list: SLDF prototypes
a 3050 list: SLDF tech
a 3075 list: 3025 advancements
it could be argued that do to the constant fighting that itd take 50 year between. Even then, by 3100 we should see advances in Medium Lasers. Someones had to tinker with them beyond ER versions. Higher voltage flows, more focused emitters, better heat dissipation values.
The reason we don't see this is because it would me releasing entire weapons manuals each era of change. Its just easier to accept the jump from ERML to CERML.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
//^(^_^)^\\
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 16-Aug-2013 03:08 Post subject: Re: TRO 3145 common sense |
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Not that ERA reports and other such stuff for every era are not released, it's not that we get tech manuals with tons of new tech and occasionaly rules, it's not that RSs are printed anew for every TRO, it's not that we have this Project Phoenix in 3062 that revised oldtech...
What do we have the availability ratings for? I sincerely hope that we somewhere learn that IS is producing these things and some estimated quantities. Otherwise it looks plain stupid.
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 27-Sep-2013 00:33 Post subject: Sortek Assault Craft (Davion) |
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Well, this vehicle is otherwise fine, but I just wonder why didn't they use the fuel cell...
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Karagin
Imperial Karagin Army
Imperial General
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 4120
Location: United States
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| Posted: 27-Sep-2013 05:45 Post subject: TRO 3145 common sense |
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Thing is though if they are making ALL of these other weapons that we see the IS pushing out on the market, then they could make Clan tech at the same rate and thus lower the cost. Not saying an AK47 is complex item to make, BUT if a guy in a machine shop in Afghanistan can make a hand copy of one and it works as well as the original he copied, then I am pretty sure the Inner Sphere military industrial complex can make Clan Tech weapons for the houses as well as improvements on said weapons that are already out there to improve their performance and cut minimums.
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Karagin
Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato
"Wasted trip Man. Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no tigers." Oddball
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