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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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 Posted: 31-Aug-2006 17:15 Post subject: Bidding (follow up to Man O'war question) |
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Reading responses to the Man O'war vs. Uller post, I see that many people point out how expensive the Man O'war is when bidding forces. I always thought so, too.
I usually use the bidding system outlined in the Tukayyid scenario pack: 5 tons of Clan mech are worth 5 points, Inner Sphere mechs are worth somewhat less (depending on tech base) and elementals are 10 points per point. Easy and simple, but it definitely discourages using bigger mechs.
When the Tactical Handbook came out, I tried their Battle Value system to even out bidding. Tried it once. Way too time consuming (especially when done by hand- every tiny equipment change is a whole new calculation) and that system _really_ discourages using bigger mechs. I've never used BV since.
But, under the new battle value system, Man O'war isn't much more expensive than the Ryoken, and most configs are cheaper than the Thor and Mad Cat.
So, does anyone use BV for bidding? I don't, but I can see how someone would be willing to take one of the better MOw variants over a more expensive Thor, etc. But, it doesn't seem to make much sense fluffwise, especially with omnimechs.
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mud
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 23-Jul-2002 00:00
Posts: 1618
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| Posted: 31-Aug-2006 17:28 Post subject: RE: Bidding (follow up to Man O'war question) |
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I've used both tonnage and BV based systems for bidding, and you definitely end up with different optimal strategies with each. In a BV system, the Man O' War probably is not a bad choice, but I tend to judge things from the point of view of tonnage.
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"The enemy's gate is down."
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Seraph
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Major
Joined: 11-Mar-2004 00:00
Posts: 1744
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| Posted: 31-Aug-2006 22:16 Post subject: RE: Bidding (follow up to Man O'war question) |
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I use tonnage for bidding mainly. I've never thought of using bv for bidding because, fluff-wise, clanners assign units in bidding by individual unit-star-binary-trinary-etc... They don't sit down with some techs and figure out the relative values of the mech's component parts and weapons.
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If ignorance is bliss, then why are you so miserable?
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 31-Aug-2006 23:34 Post subject: RE: Bidding (follow up to Man O'war question) |
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BV would include adjustments for pilot skill, though. A star of assault mechs with green pilots may weigh 400+ tons, but they'll still get chewed up by elite pilots in lesser mechs.
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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Vagabond
Mercenary
Mr. Referee
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 5627
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Sep-2006 02:40 Post subject: RE: Bidding (follow up to Man O'war question) |
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Quote:
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When the Tactical Handbook came out, I tried their Battle Value system to even out bidding. Tried it once. Way too time consuming (especially when done by hand- every tiny equipment change is a whole new calculation) and that system _really_ discourages using bigger mechs. I've never used BV since.
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I think you mean CV. CV was used in the TH not BV. I should know with my campaign idea based upon it.
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one must work hard to cultivate the mind and body. and one must always cultivate the mind.
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Wanallo
Federated Suns
Leftenant Colonel
Joined: 02-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 671
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 01-Sep-2006 11:11 Post subject: RE: Bidding (follow up to Man O'war question) |
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Quote:
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On 2006-09-01 02:40, Vagabond wrote:
I should know with my campaign idea based upon it.
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It is indeed, and i have to say its rather tricky, but gives you the best all round game.
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Constant exposure to dangers will breed contempt for them-Seneca
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 05-Sep-2006 06:47 Post subject: RE: Bidding (follow up to Man O'war question) |
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Would it make sense using POD-SPACE for bidding purposes? Assuming you are using omnis, of course. But it would make sense: we have had instances of warriors bidding aways weapons (Somerset Strikers, ok that doesn't count; but Ice Hellions do it, too) and it states specifically in the fluff of the Kingfisher (at least in the original TRO) that it is cheaper in terms of bidding than comparable assault omnis. Now, unless you devise a complicated method of taking into account the engine, pod-space would be the way to go, no?
Of course, that would make designs with fixed jump jets slightly more powerful than intended.
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"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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Knightrunner
Clan Snow Raven
Star Commander
Joined: 20-Jul-2005 00:00
Posts: 123
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| Posted: 07-Sep-2006 20:36 Post subject: RE: Bidding (follow up to Man O'war question) |
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Well, it shows how often I use the system that I hadn't realized CV and BV were different things entirely.
Bidding by pod space makes some sense, but it doesn't factor the speed, armor, or jump jets into the equation. An equation that took all of these into account would probably quickly become almost as complicated as BV/CV.
About the Kingfisher, I wonder if it's the actual cost of mechs they are bidding in that case, rather than tonnage/pod space, etc. A Kingfisher wouldn't cost much more than a Black Hawk, if C-bills were the only consideration.
I've always used a multiplier system to account for differences in pilot skill.
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