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House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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 Posted: 11-Jul-2006 05:44 Post subject: Improved Archer 6W...the 7W for your bashing |
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BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Archer ARC-7W
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 70 tons
Chassis: Earthwerks Archer II Standard
Power Plant: 280 Vox Fusion
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Maximillian 100
Armament:
12 Rocket Launcher 15 (OS)s
2 Rocket Launcher 10 (OS)s
2 Sunglow Type 2 Large Lasers
2 Magna Mk II Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Vandenberg Mechanized Industries
Location: Pinard / TC (VMI)
Communications System: Neil 9000
Targeting & Tracking System: RCA Instatrac Mark XII
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Type/Model: Archer ARC-7W
Mass: 70 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 107 pts Standard 0 7.00
Engine: 280 Fusion 6 16.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 13 Double [26] (1 RA, 1 LA) 6 3.00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 0.00
Armor Factor: 208 pts Standard 0 13.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 22 32
Center Torso (Rear): 9
L/R Side Torso: 15 23/23
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 6/6
L/R Arm: 11 21/21
L/R Leg: 15 29/29
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
6 RL 15 (OS) RT 24 12 6.00
6 RL 15 (OS) LT 24 12 6.00
2 RL 10 (OS) CT 6 2 1.00
1 Large Laser RA 8 2 5.00
1 Large Laser LA 8 2 5.00
1 Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
1 Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 76 69 70.00
Crits & Tons Left: 9 0.00
[ This Message was edited by: Vagabond on 2006-07-11 16:22 ]
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Sleeping Dragon
Draconis Combine
Tai-i
Joined: 06-Apr-2005 00:00
Posts: 4820
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 11-Jul-2006 06:32 Post subject: RE: Improved Archer 6W...the 7W for your bashing |
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Nice upgrade. Beam firepower received major upgrade and it can still launch more missiles than 6W. (of course that it can't beat my 6W2 in this area, but this mech has other strong points  ). DHSs are needed to launch massive RL salvos from mechs and thats all you need to know 
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 13-Jul-2006 11:20 Post subject: RE: Improved Archer 6W...the 7W for your bashing |
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It's better, but not much. And I somewhat doubt the TC would use more resources on improving a mech they shouldn't have built in the first place. LRM launchers aren't forgotten tech there! And if you're forced to put RLs on a heavy mech extra DHS should be reserved for better mechs.
In short, I never understood what they wanted a RL-armed Archer for. Enforcers on worlds without enemy mechs? Something medium with lots of energy weapons would be cheaper for that. And it could carry about the same fire power minus the one-shot wonders.
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House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 14-Jul-2006 16:41 Post subject: RE: Improved Archer 6W...the 7W for your bashing |
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Whoa there Nightmare!
What do you mean "not much"?
I tried to fight this beast to the best of my ability. I agree, RL's are a waste of time. I would much rather have negotiated with the DC for MRM's and remained the most technologically advanced periphery power than to use RL's.
But that is just me. I am not one of TPTB so I had no say in the process. Thus I am stuck with the decision for my faction to use RL armed mechs. Now that I have ranted on about that...I tried to overcome as many of the drawbacks to the 6W as I could manage.
I posted the rest of the following comments at Battlecorps for my fellow Taurians to critique and bash on also. They came back favorably with 85+% of their reviews. Two or three of them are well known in the CBT community (at least at BC and CBT) and have their names published in a few of the technical readouts (me too).
And please don't take me wrong. I am not mad, upset, irritated or anything else negative. Nor am I trying to pat myself onthe back for getting my name published in a CBT product. I am simply trying to figure out why (besides the stupid RL's) you didn't like it.
Let me know after you finish reading this page long or better rant. Thanks.
From the BC Taurian Boards:
The ARC-6W doesn't appear to have too many proponents. No surprise, I am not either. And I think that I fall into the majority of views, with many others, that not haveing reloadable launchers is a drawback. Yes it is inexpensive and I have read soooooo many debates and counter debates about the uses/lack of uses, benefits/drawbacks, etc, etc, etc...ad naseum... that I have lost interest in debating it. I can see uses for this design, I just don't care for it. Personal preference. So be it for those that love the 6W also. So, having listened/read sooo many debates, I decided to see if I could "make a better mouse trap" from the 6W. I think that I did it...debatable I know...
I think, like I said, that most opponents of the 6W do it for one primary reason. Lack of sustainable combat ability. So going back to the original 2R that those that hate the 6W constantly refer to as superior, I tried to analyze this idea....
The 2R has 2 forward firing Medium lasers, and 2 firing to the rear (rarely useful). Its main systems, those but kicking LRM-20's, pack only enough ammo for 12 rounds of fire each...
12 rounds...not that much really. More than enough for a normal run of the mill game. Not enough for campaign type settings, but thats another issue. Now given the heat issues the 2R suffers those 12 rounds will usually last about 18 rounds, more than enough as I said for a normal game since they don't normally last 18 rounds. But still...12 rounds...and after that your down to 2 forward firing arm mounted Medium lasers. Not really a credible threat until it starts swinging its fists over your cockpit...yikes!
Now compare that to the total of 10 rounds of inaccurate RL fire from the 6W. Ok, now I say so why not increase the number of rounds it can fire effectively. So I started recalculating and decided that if the 4 ML the 6W carries are not considered a "true" threat, why not change that too.
This lead me to the following modifications: I replaced the SHS's with DHS's for more heat capacity using less space and fewer heat sinks (duh!), substituted the 8 RL20's with 12 RL15's....back to that 12 rounds number again. I kept the 2 RL10's due to mass limits, and since the ML's weren't a big enough threat why not use Large lasers like on the 2K or 5M? So even when it is out of Rockets after even as few as 3 rounds if you care to shoot the entire load on one side or the other (DHS's let me do it) I still have 2 Large and 2 Medium lasers. left to smash you with.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 14-Jul-2006 22:44 Post subject: RE: Improved Archer 6W...the 7W for your bashing |
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Quote:
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On 2006-07-14 16:41, House Calderon 1 wrote:
Whoa there Nightmare!
What do you mean "not much"?
I tried to fight this beast to the best of my ability. I agree, RL's are a waste of time.
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Not much is just that. It's better, but the original was bad to begin with. You can get the same energy firepower cheaper on a medium mech. And it's a waste of expensive DHS to improve on something that carries RLs when you have the capacity to use other weapons. Those heat sinks could be better used by mechs that have a full complement of energy weapons.
I can actually see one reason for people to build mechs with RLs, but not as new factory output. An Archer with extensive battle damage could be refitted with RLs so that undamaged mechs get more spare parts. This would be especially common if the unit is some low-priority garrison. So what if it's not too good, it's just sitting on a rock anyway.
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House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 14-Jul-2006 23:22 Post subject: RE: Improved Archer 6W...the 7W for your bashing |
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So I take it that you didn't notice the
2 Large Lasers and
2 Medium Lasers
on each arm?
Lets see...
16 heat for the LARGE lasers...
and another 6 heat for the MEDIUM lasers...
thats ...
22 heat total...
running adds...2....
grand total 24 heat generated...
oh yeah! I have enough heat sinks to do
that EVERY TURN!
After expending all of my Rocket launchers...
200 missiles... so call it 100 hit on the average
(low in reality)...
No I am not worried about being out of rockets...
annoyed. But not worried. Same main weapons load out as a Marauder 3M (Marik 3025).
Look.
I personally HATE rocket launchers. I wouldn't use them for any reason myself.
BUT...THE CBT PTB decided that my faction is going to use them. I don't like it. But its not my decision. And since I am trying to create and modify mechs for my faction I have to consider the use of RL's every time.
I think that given the limitations I have to live with that I did a pretty good job of taking a crap mech and tried to turn it into one that warriors wouldn't be worried about using in combat.
Thanks.
HC
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 16-Jul-2006 09:00 Post subject: RE: Improved Archer 6W...the 7W for your bashing |
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Quote:
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On 2006-07-14 23:22, House Calderon 1 wrote:
So I take it that you didn't notice the
2 Large Lasers and
2 Medium Lasers
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I noticed. I also notice that the TC can build Griffins and actually modified the design to build the Marshal mech for colonial Marshals. It could easily carry the same energy weaponry at much lower cost. Devoting 20% of your tonnage to one-shot weapons seems pretty reckless to me, not to mention wasting the potential of an expensive heavy mech. Compare it with old Level 1 heavies, I'll compare it with newer Level 2 mediums.
Quote:
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I think that given the limitations I have to live with that I did a pretty good job of taking a crap mech and tried to turn it into one that warriors wouldn't be worried about using in combat.
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It's certainly not your fault that the designers can't read their own sourcebooks. The Taurians aren't desperate enough to actually need RL-armed mechs. And while your upgrade is better than the original it also assumes Taurians would waste high-tech like DHS on something armed with Rocket Launchers.
[ This Message was edited by: Nightmare on 2006-07-16 11:10 ]
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House Calderon 1
Federated Suns
Command Sergeant-Major
Joined: 03-Feb-2006 00:00
Posts: 156
Location: United States
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| Posted: 16-Jul-2006 14:31 Post subject: RE: Improved Archer 6W...the 7W for your bashing |
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I don't know what the difference would be in the cost for using SHS, but the original 6W wasted 12 tons on them (22SHS), compared to the 3 tons I devoted to DHS.
I agree that the Taurians aren't desperate enough to be using RL's. Be that as it may for what ever reason the PTB made the decision to have the TC start using them like they were "good stuff".
What ever. I would take mine against a 6W any time and bet on mine winning >/= 90% of the time.
Personnally I would rather use the other design(s) that I posted for the Taurians.
VASTLY better designs.
Thanks.
HC
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