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Pinhead
The Bloody Clans
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1258
Location: United States
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 Posted: 02-Dec-2003 20:20 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader.... |
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Ok lets look at them in a one up battle..
Even base pilots.. 4 gunners 5 pilots
Means at long range the to hit numbers are gonna be 8 plus movement.
If I am the Cat I am coming in fast. I want to be close. If I can win initiative and get your back you will be pretty unhappy. If I am the Crusader, I want to stay at medium or long range and get rid of these damned missles, so at long range, No one will hit...
at Medium range you are 6 plus movement on each mech.. using the same theory as above, you need 10s again the hits will be rare.
At close range, I would put the advantage squarely with the Cat. Fire the LRMs to get rid of them, and then you have 4 ML in a torso, which is a MUCH better weapon placement for a dog fight than in the arms.
(shrug) Equal pilots, I think the Crusader would be hard pressed to win.
Pin
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8051
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Dec-2003 20:28 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader.... |
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On 2003-12-02 20:20, Pinhead wrote:
(shrug) Equal pilots, I think the Crusader would be hard pressed to win.
Pin
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Unless Hardware is piloting the Crusader 
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 02-Dec-2003 22:51 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader.... |
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| I'm going to try and run a test battle tomorrow if I can. I'll keep you guys posted on the result.
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1324
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2003 09:49 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader.... |
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I am taking bets for -Mud's battle. Put your money on the Crusader as the odds are stacked against it and if by some miracle it wins you will be rich rich rich!
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The JadeDragon
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Havoc~Ronin
Federated Suns
Major
Joined: 13-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 427
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2003 11:30 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader.... |
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Count me in on that bet. I will wager that the Crusader, though heavily damaged, will be victorious.
As for the current count of supporters, each side has gone up by one.
The numbers are now Crusader 5 / Catapult 8.
Keep those preferences rolling in.
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1324
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2003 11:49 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader.... |
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Looks like alot more Catapult voters and fewer Crusaders to me
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Havoc~Ronin
Federated Suns
Major
Joined: 13-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 427
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2003 12:01 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader.... |
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Sorry, part-time dyslexic (sic)......
I should read Crusader 8 / Catapult 5
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2003 21:39 Post subject: Catapult vs Crusader Round One |
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| The Crusader pulled out a convincing win in the first round of hostilities between these two designs. I ran the Crusader myself and my opponent ran the Catapult. I hit hard early on in the game, and the Catapult simply was unable to catch up. I did have to risk an ammo explosion on the heat scale to pull off the endgame though, and I had to roll against shutdown at least three times.
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2003 23:09 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader Round One |
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Sounds like you played to the hilt, with disaster only a dice edge away. The former makes me nod in appreciation, the latter makes me challenge your use of "convincing victory". If it was that convincing, you wouldn't be that close to destruction.
Unless of course you did so, leaving the Crud with a lot of intact armor and the CPLT a smoking mess.
Did the Pult die of a lucky shot? Or attrition?
How'd you rate your opponent?
Paul, as a Pult fan, struggling to find time to set up a MMek match.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2003 23:29 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader Round One |
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| My real edge came in the opening rounds of the battle. I got a nice series of LRM-15 hits which softened up the Catapult's already weaker armor, and I also pulled out a lucky engine critical hit on the Catapult in the 3rd round (rolling a two on the hit locations chart). My opponent got in some good hits too, but wasn't quite as lucky as I (critically hitting a gyro instead of engine slot on his own lucky two critical hit), and my stronger armor stood up better to this peppering. Once the LRM rounds ran low and we started to close for the infighting stage of the battle, I was already getting internal shots on the Catapult. Here the SRMs really proved their worth to me. I blew off the right arm, and then got internal on the right torso, took out a ML, and finally hit the remaining LRM rounds in the right torso. The resulting 40 points of damage was enough to gut the Catapult. The Crusader had some considerable armor damage, but was only internal on one arm, and was walking kinda funny from a lucky gyro hit, but all and all in pretty good shape. The Catapult might have done better if I hadn't hit that engine slot and effectively neutralized his heat sink advantage. Overall, I thought the fight could have been closer, but I also had by no means entirely used up my margin of error armor-wise. It just goes to show how important armor is really. If you have a ranged firepower advantage over your opponent, you can get away with lesser armor, because you'll probably do more damage in the opening phases of the game, but if the ranged firepower component is equal, the unit with more armor usually carries the day.
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Paul
Capellan Confederation
Sang-wei
Joined: 25-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 255
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Dec-2003 23:41 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader Round One |
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On 2003-12-03 23:29, -Mud wrote:
and I also pulled out a lucky engine critical hit on the Catapult in the 3rd round (rolling a two on the hit locations chart).
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Aye, that hurts. Would've hurt worse if he got that hit on you.
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My opponent got in some good hits too, but wasn't quite as lucky as I (critically hitting a gyro instead of engine slot on his own lucky two critical hit),
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Personally, I'd rather take 2 engine hits over 1 hyro hit. EVen in 3025. As soon as I would've gotten that hit on you, I would've closed immediately to begin the kick fest. Every turn a 50% chance to fall, and then you'd have the same odds getting up. If you were using a 5 pilot, the odds are even worse. Did your opponent attempt to exploit this?
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and my stronger armor stood up better to this peppering. Once the LRM rounds ran low and we started to close for the infighting stage of the battle, I was already getting internal shots on the Catapult. Here the SRMs really proved their worth to me.
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Aye, as several in this discussion predicted. Good work.
How come the Catapult didnt simply move outside your front arc when things got up close and personal? That'd pretty much limit you to 2 MLs, and also minimize the threat of the SRM's crit finding ability.
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I blew off the right arm, and then got internal on the right torso, took out a ML, and finally hit the remaining LRM rounds in the right torso. The resulting 40 points of damage was enough to gut the Catapult.
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Ouch!
How come it still had ammo? Thought you guys emptied out?
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It just goes to show how important armor is really.
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True, you played on that advantage very well.
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If you have a ranged firepower advantage over your opponent, you can get away with lesser armor, because you'll probably do more damage in the opening phases of the game, but if the ranged firepower component is equal, the unit with more armor usually carries the day.
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Also true, which is why the CPLT has to close soon, perhaps even dumping ammo. Or starting with only 1 bin of ammo.
Looking forward to your next report.
Paul
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 04-Dec-2003 15:56 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader Round One |
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| Hey Paul, do you really live in Holland? I'm going to be in Amsterdam to see Ween next week.
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Jade_Dragon
8th Sword of Light
Sho-sho
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 1324
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Dec-2003 16:35 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader Round One |
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What were the skills you used for Gunnery and Piloting?
It sounds to me as if your oppoenent was not maximizing the Catapult's advantages as we outlined earlier.
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-Mud
ex-Jade Falcon
Bounty Hunter
Joined: 04-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1082
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| Posted: 04-Dec-2003 16:38 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader Round One |
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| 4/5 on both sides
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 04-Dec-2003 16:47 Post subject: RE: Catapult vs Crusader Round One |
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I think that more test battles would be required before too many conclusions could be drawn. This first test sounds like it could have gone the other way with a few unlucky rolls. I would try it, but my current target just got an addition to the family, so his wife will not let him play for a while.
(I wish I could find more here in town to play with)
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