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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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 Posted: 30-Mar-2005 20:07 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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On 2005-03-30 16:15, jymset wrote:
Wraith. Any water slowing it down to the point of a crawl will also cover the whole 'mech, making it untouchable in the moments of its greatest weakness.
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And it will be rolling a piloting check for every water hex it enters. Fall down, take damage, check it the section hit is breached.
Hmmm. I won a recent match by pushing my enemy so that he fell from a hill into water. Having no armor on his rear CT his engine was "destroyed". Pushing people is fun. 
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2005 20:59 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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On 2005-03-30 08:25, ralgith wrote:
First up is the Bandersnatch BNDR-TD. A very nice mech with dual LB 10-X as main armament.
Facing it we have a Wraith TR-1.
The terrain is 2 maps.
South one has 2 huge (up to level 5) mountains heading north and south with valley's to either side and down the middle.
North map is mostly water, with a few sparse trees and some large hills.
The Bandersnatch starts at south edge, the Wraith at north.
The pilots are: G/P
Bandersnatch 3/3
Wraith 2/2
Who would win? Why?
In a few days I'll post who DID win, and Seraph keep ur trap shut since you know 
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Ok, I seem to have missed saying it in my original post, but no special munitions (clusters arent considered special as thats what the LBXs are designed for).
Anyways, heres the deal:
I Piloted the 'Snatch.
27 round fight.
On the last round both mechs had 3 or more armorless locations, but not crits had been scored.
That round he hit my LRM ammo (all 3 of my torsos were naked).
Boom!
I died.
He had less than 12% armor on his mech. As did I before I went boom.
Note: the TD is the 'Snatch with max armor.
Anyways, thats what happened, it was very fun, and very challenging. I thought I had him when I needed an 7 to push him off a level 2 hill into depth 2 water that was in level -1 terrain. But I missed the push %&^^$^^&^. Still, was a good fight, and we'll do it again sometime. The terrain was also randomly chosen and surprise to each of us. It killed me.
Note to people who said 'Snatch should hide in heavy woods and unload. I couldn't, there were 3 hexes of said woods, and all were on fire.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8050
Location: United States
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| Posted: 30-Mar-2005 21:17 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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On 2005-03-30 20:59, ralgith wrote:
Note to people who said 'Snatch should hide in heavy woods and unload. I couldn't, there were 3 hexes of said woods, and all were on fire.
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And the reason why you couldn't is.....?
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DarkAdder
Clan Star Adder
Star Commander
Joined: 10-Jan-2004 00:00
Posts: 604
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2005 00:50 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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Umm, wading mechs into fire, even if mechs have double heat sinks, tends to make them run a bit warm. And when High Explosives *ahem*LRM and LBX ammo*cough* get warm, they tend to turn into rather impressive fireworks displays.
Even if the ammo doesnt cook off, the mech still risks slowing down and\or having horrendous penalties to hit.
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Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
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Erenon
Blighted Sun Battalion
2nd Company
"Seraph's Slaughter"
Sergeant
Joined: 04-Jun-2004 00:00
Posts: 976
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2005 01:39 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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Tested this out in megamek.... unfortunately i don't have the stats of the same bandersnatch so i was forced to use the basic model..
Taking the bandersnatch, i blew the wraith to kingdom come.. partly due to the random mech providing very little cover and a couple of lucky hits from the LBs.
Taking the wraith, i beat the bandersnatch.. but this was hard fought and at the end of it my armour could only be called armour if you're an optimist and my right arm was just gone...
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"My job is to keep the majority of people in this country alive. That's it. If fifty-one percent eat a meal tomorrow and forty-nine percent don't, I've done my job." - The Beast (AKA The President), Transmetropolitan
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2005 02:53 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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On 2005-03-30 20:59, ralgith wrote:
Note: the TD is the 'Snatch with max armor.
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I didn't know that the Bandersnatch had any stock variants. Was that a homebrew?
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"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8050
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2005 11:52 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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On 2005-03-31 00:50, DarkAdder wrote:
Umm, wading mechs into fire, even if mechs have double heat sinks, tends to make them run a bit warm. And when High Explosives *ahem*LRM and LBX ammo*cough* get warm, they tend to turn into rather impressive fireworks displays.
Even if the ammo doesnt cook off, the mech still risks slowing down and\or having horrendous penalties to hit.
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It's only +5 heat.
A tactically adept player would never rule out a fire hex simply because of possible problems.
If you fired both LBx's and all 3 LRMs and stood in a fire hex you're still at a very comfy zero heat.
Hell, you're still doing OK if you fire all your forward facing weapons and stand in a fire hex. Even further...you could walk through a couple too before being at a heat that even begins to cause problems.
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Oafman
Draconis Combine
Tai-sho
Joined: 18-Nov-2003 00:00
Posts: 1657
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2005 14:46 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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Fires should only really affect the tactics when you have things like engine hits and are already overheating. They are fun to start just to see if you can change how the opponent changes their tactics. That is why I like my volcano map. Lava and fires all over the place, not a good place to bring overheating laser boats or anything that cannot jump.
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Festina Lente!
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Hardware
Clan Ghost Bear
Star Colonel
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 605
Location: United States
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| Posted: 31-Mar-2005 20:45 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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The heavy woods were on fire? I sure hope you were using smoke rules. That would allow you to stand still, and totally negate the Wraith's movement . Sure he gets a high move mod, but yours will be about equal and you haven't moved while the Wraith is probably running every turn. As far as fire goes, I can smell a level 2 player.
You know your mech doesn't explode when it goes higher than 0 heat, right?
If it was close the way you played it, play it my way, improved thunder lrms and cluster ammo. I bet the Wraith goes down. If you have trouble keeping track use little bits of modelling clay on the map. I bet the Wraith pilot starts having fits after about 6 turns because he will be highly mobility restricted.
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Nightmare
Lyran Alliance
Kommandant-General
Joined: 03-May-2002 00:00
Posts: 2214
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2005 06:23 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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Woods and smoke. Exactly the way one of our guys destroyed a Wraith with his trusty old 3025 Atlas. Once the Atlas managed to connect with a full salvo and the Wraith lost a leg the match was finished. The Atlas did lose over 200 points of armor, but it wasn't hurt.
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A tree fall in the forest, and no one is around, and it hits a mime. Does anyone care?
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2005 20:58 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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Quote:
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On 2005-03-31 14:46, Oafman wrote:
Fires should only really affect the tactics when you have things like engine hits and are already overheating. They are fun to start just to see if you can change how the opponent changes their tactics. That is why I like my volcano map. Lava and fires all over the place, not a good place to bring overheating laser boats or anything that cannot jump.
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I guess I forgot to mention that they were on fire because he was using them, and I couldn't get to them w/out taking backshots galore.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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ralgith
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company
"Ralgith's Renegades"
Colonel
Joined: 18-Aug-2003 00:00
Posts: 2021
Location: United States
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| Posted: 01-Apr-2005 21:03 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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Ok, no special rules were in use either, so no help from the smoke 
The Bandersnatch has TWO canon variants. The TD was the original and has max armor, but uses FF. The other 'Snatch was in either the 3050, 55, or 58 TRO... and don't have max armor.
MegaMek's newer Dev versions have the TD, and so SHOULD the Stable ones.
Anyways, I've yet to have the rematch, so we'll see how that goes.
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Colonel Ralgith t'Mayasara
Blighted Sun Battalion
1st Company 'Ralgith's Renegades'
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jymset
Scavenger
in pursuit of LosTech
Joined: 05-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 956
Location: Germany
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2005 02:31 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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I hope I'm up to date on all things canon - so can you please tell us where the TD was published? A Bandersnatch with max armour sounds yummy!
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"Rear armour is defeatist!" - unknown Kuritan Mechwarrior
The AC5 is a great gun!
On heat, 3025 style:
A Rifleman knows no heat.
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chihawk
Clan Blood Spirit
Master Bartender
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 8050
Location: United States
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| Posted: 02-Apr-2005 05:46 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-02 02:31, jymset wrote:
I hope I'm up to date on all things canon - so can you please tell us where the TD was published? A Bandersnatch with max armour sounds yummy!
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It's not a Canon design, it's a mech out of a fanzine called "Tech Factory". Just take off the 2 rear firing mediums and add two tons of armor.
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Hardware
Clan Ghost Bear
Star Colonel
Joined: 04-Feb-2002 00:00
Posts: 605
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03-Apr-2005 09:21 Post subject: RE: Duel Winner - Who would you choose? |
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-01 21:03, ralgith wrote:
Ok, no special rules were in use either, so no help from the smoke
The Bandersnatch has TWO canon variants. The TD was the original and has max armor, but uses FF. The other 'Snatch was in either the 3050, 55, or 58 TRO... and don't have max armor.
MegaMek's newer Dev versions have the TD, and so SHOULD the Stable ones.
Anyways, I've yet to have the rematch, so we'll see how that goes.
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How can you play fire rules without smoke? Sounds like he sucked you in. You let him pick the battlefield, that's half the battle right there. He had to know you would hole up in woods and fire would discourage you from doing so.
If you think playing B'tech with as realistic an environment is slow you should try playing modern micro armor or naval miniatures. Games in glacial time.
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The more I get to know people the more I like my dog.
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